“Don’t Give Up Just Yet” with Nick Connolly

Shownotes:

Don’t give up.

If you take anything away from today’s episode, let it be that simple phrase: Don’t give up.

Eddie and Chris talk to Nick Connolly, founder and lead pastor of Bright City Church in Charleston, South Carolina. Nick has a few good words to share with anyone facing hardships, defeat, or resistance. His new book, Don’t Give Up Just Yet, comes out in February 2024 and offers some practical ways to work through doubt, seasons of waiting, and letting life’s difficulties strengthen your faith in God and the path God has ready for you.

Resources:

Bright City Church

Follow Nick on Instagram and Twitter

Pre-order Don’t Give Up Just Yet

Transcript:

Eddie Rester 00:00 I'm Eddie Rester.

Chris McAlilly 00:01
I'm Chris McAlilly. Welcome to The Weight.

Eddie Rester 00:04

Today we have Nick Connolly. Nick has been pastor, the founding pastor of Bright City Church in Charleston, South Carolina for the last decade. We're going to talk to him about planting a church. But we're gonna spend most of our time talking to him about a book that's coming out, "Don't Give Up Just Yet."

Chris McAlilly 00:21

Yeah, the subtitle of the book is called "Choosing Persistence in a World of Overwhelming Resistance." And we talked about how that was true in his life in certain seasons, but then also just kind of the difficulty that we all have at certain moments of life where we want to give up, and not only kind of some of the things that can be resources in those moments, but also ways that you can develop kind of habits and rhythms and relationships to actually have hope and persevere hard things. What did you take away, Eddie, from the conversation?

Eddie Rester 00:59

I just think this is an episode for anybody who is really struggling with putting one foot in front of the next. If you're worn out, weary, if you're burned out, this is a good word for you. Just about how you can partner with resistance that is happening in your life, how you can think about doing more than just white knuckling your way through life. He really, I think, has a vision of how life can be, because we're gonna face hard things. That's just one of the truths of life.

Chris McAlilly 01:38

Yeah. And I think one of the frames that I here running through his worldview, his vision, is that the external things are going to be hard. Everyone faces hard things. There's just not a way around it. And so those external circumstances are one dimension. And then there's also not only how you respond to those things, but the internal work that you're doing in relationship to those external things. And I think the hope for him really comes in this deep conviction that the living God can do this renovating internal work in your heart, in your life, in your mind, in your spirit that actually allows you to navigate those hard things in a way that builds character, that builds endurance, and ultimately builds hope. And it's a deeply... You know, I mean, the conversation, I come away from it feeling really encouraged and reminded of some of the habits and the people in my life that I need to have in place if I'm going to navigate hard seasons up ahead. So I hope you enjoyed the episode. If you do share it with your friends, like it, and leave us a review on whichever podcast vehicle you utilize. And we're always glad that you're with us on The Weight. [INTRO] Life can be heavy. So heavy, in fact, that the weight we carry can sometimes cause us to lose hope.

Eddie Rester 03:12
But we've all come across those people in life who seem to be experiencing the same world we live in, except they maintain a great depth of joy and hope.

Chris McAlilly 03:21
A former generation called this gravitas. It was their description of a soul that had gained enough weightiness to be attractive, like all things with a gravitational pull.

Eddie Rester 03:32
Those are the people we want to talk to. On this podcast, we talk to pastors, entrepreneurs, artists, mental health experts, and many others.

Chris McAlilly 03:42
We'll create space for heavy topics, but we'll be listening for a quality of soul that could be called gravitas.

Eddie Rester 03:48

Welcome to The Weight. [END INTRO] We're here with Nick Connolly today, who's written a book we're going to talk about. Nick, thank you for spending some time with us today.

Nick Connolly 03:58 So great to be here.

Chris McAlilly 03:59
What's your story, Nick? Where are you from?

Nick Connolly 04:02

Oh, man. All right. So I'm from Charlotte, North Carolina, born and raised. And then I was there until I met this incredible woman in youth group. And once we fell in love, I was like, I'm gonna follow her wherever she goes to college. So I followed her to college, and we lived in Seattle. We lived in Indiana. We've lived all over the southeast and now we're in Charleston, South Carolina.

Eddie Rester 04:27
Excellent. And you started a church in South Carolina 10 years ago. So tell us a little bit about

Bright City Church.

Nick Connolly 04:34

Bright City Church actually was planted as a gospel community. We planted in... We moved here about 2013, planted in 2014. And we got a few years into the church and I realized that we had become, by accident, a holy huddle. I think people would Google "gospel doctrine church" and they would end up at our house. And I'll never forget this moment, one day I got approached by, it was probably 10 people, after church, and they had an organization named for their group. And they were like, here's our group name. And this is who we are, and we give to ourselves. And we have this structure in place. And we're just looking for somewhere to be on Sunday. And so we would like to come over to your house, and talk about what it is to be a part of your church. And so you know, we have them over after church for lunch. And I'm telling you, I've never been more peppered with questions in my whole life about everything in this world. And after, you know, I have good leaders in my life, and they said, "Hey, listen. When you have these moments, you need to figure out what God is telling you. What is God saying to you in this moment?" And I was like, we have created something I don't like going to, and it's a problem when I don't like going to my own church. Not that it's about me. I just was like, I've gotta enjoy worshiping here, too. And so we relaunched and replanted as Bright City Church in about 2017.

Eddie Rester 06:10
Yeah. Names say things, and Bright City Church just communicate something very different to me from your original name. It points you outward, outward to the city that you're in.

Nick Connolly 06:25

That's exactly what happened. That's exactly what it was. I was like, we've got to recover that light. We have buried the light. We have covered it up. We've got to recover it. And that's like, you know, when you read the scriptures you read in the Bible, God is into names. And it's one of our first jobs as humans on this planet is to name things. And so when I felt like he was calling us to steward that name, it really did change everything for us.

Chris McAlilly 06:52 Why church planting?

Nick Connolly 06:54
Oh, gosh, man. I think I didn't know enough. Like, I think knowing what I know now...

Eddie Rester 07:04
That could be said for almost anything. Yeah, that's great.

Nick Connolly 07:06

What was I thinking? I knew that God was calling me into ministry, towards the end of my teen years. And when you're a teenager, you really do think that that option is youth ministry. Like, you had some guy that you connected with or gal that you connected with, and they walked with you through some of the hardest moments of your teenage life that you think are your hardest moments in life in general, and they're not. And so when I had great leaders, I was like, man, that's what I want to do. And when... It was probably in my mid 20s, I was driving back and forth. We lived just outside of Seattle, and I was driving to seminary in Portland, Oregon. And I just remember doing anything I could to not fall asleep during the rainy seasons when I'm just driving through the rain. And I was praying one day, and I felt like God called me to start a community of believers through church planting. And after that, I started getting plugged into this church planting training course in my local church. And the rest was history. It was like I couldn't not do this.

Eddie Rester 08:19
What does the energy go to?

Chris McAlilly 08:21

Yeah, I was gonna ask a similar question. Go ahead.

Eddie Rester 08:24 It's important.

Nick Connolly 08:25

I feel like my seminary journey was NASCAR. You know, like when you watch racing, they've got a bunch of stickers on their bumper. I've got a bunch of seminaries on my theological bumper. I started at Gordon Conwell, then I went to Western Seminary, and then I finished at retrain seminary.

Eddie Rester 08:42
Okay. So Western was... Western, not that was different than the George Fox seminary.

Nick Connolly 08:50 Okay.

Eddie Rester 08:51
I went I did my doctorate through George Fox a long...

Nick Connolly 08:54 Oh, wow.

Eddie Rester 08:54
Long time ago. So. So yeah. So I was just interested to see if our paths had somehow accidentally almost missed each other. So I think, Chris, I cut you off.

Chris McAlilly 09:04

No, you're fine. I mean, I think church planting is, you know, I think it definitely is a hard... I mean, the people I know that do it, it's a difficult thing. It's both a wonderful and very hard endeavor. And so I wonder, it sounds like just planting and then replanting, that even seems like a harder journey, you know. And so I wonder, maybe, before we get to some of kind of the harder moments, the darker times, I wonder if you could maybe speak to some of the places where you feel like you've encountered the living God through the process.

Nick Connolly 09:48

That's good. Well, I think the first place you encounter the living God in church planting is in your own heart. I think it... I had a guy that was walking with us at one point as a church leader, and he said, "You think that you are planting something that is going to be about other people. And I'm here to tell you that this is going to be about you before it's about them." And I was like, well, that, you know, that might have happened to you. But that's not going to happen to me. Like, I just was so prideful about it. And then sure enough, like the first five years of this church was not about me making anything, it was about God making something in me. And so I would start from there, as I've just seen my heart change and a lot of ways that I never thought that I could have seen that growth in my life and that fruit in my life. And I've still got, obviously, a long way to go. But I think the greatest miracle has happened in my heart. And then I think, you know, one of the things about being in church planting, and in ministry in general, is I think you are on the frontlines of spiritual warfare, for better or for worse, and so you're going to see the worst of things, but you're also going to see some pretty incredible things. And so I've just seen God do some things in and through our community that I, you know, you always think about the structures and the systems and, you know, going back to the name like this is going to be the name. And this is going to be our strategy. And this is going to be that. And at the end of the day, it's God calling people to himself and the power of the Holy Spirit moving in those people. And that's what we've seen.

Eddie Rester 11:29

But I know it hasn't always been easy. And you wrote a book that's coming out in February of 2024, "Don't Give Up." And a lot of that came out of kind of the struggle of church planting, the struggle, following your call into ministry, and being a dad to four kids. What are you doing, Nick? Four kids? Tell us a little bit about how, just kind of how your life led into the desire to write a book.

Nick Connolly 11:58

I had to be talked into writing this book. I have an incredible wife, and she was very supportive in helping me really processed this journey. But it came out of that place where we just had a tough time. It was actually around the time when we were transitioning the church. And we saw probably about 60 to 70% of the people walk away. And from a numerical standpoint, I mean, that's... Anyone in the church planning industry would just tell you that that's failure. And God didn't call me to a number. He called me to a journey, called me to a process. And so I just remember one Saturday, I was supposed to be getting ready for the next day. I was supposed to be getting ready for Sunday. And I just remember standing in our kitchen, discouraged, standing in front of my wife, and I was like, "Hey, I need you to know that I will be working tomorrow. But today, I quit. Today, I'm not an employee of this church. I'm not. I just need to quit ministry for a day." And so out of that really began this process of me wrestling--what does that mean with God? And so fast forward probably about a year later, I was doing something with my wife, and we were having a conversation on her podcast, and where I came, where I landed with God was that God gave me the calling; therefore, the calling was not mine. And if the calling is not mine, then the calling is not mine to quit. And so I just happened to be in ministry. But there are so many people who are not in ministry and probably feel like quitting every day. And we all are... I mean, this is the universal pain that we have is the pain of when to walk away, because things are so hard and so discouraging.

Eddie Rester 13:52

I think that is a struggle that everybody has. Because sometimes you have bad days, and you kind of clear your head and you get up and the next day, you realize that was just a bad day. But sometimes that lingers for a while, and it does make you question absolutely everything that you're doing and the choices that you've made in the past.

Nick Connolly 14:15 Everything.

Eddie Rester 14:16
The things that are coming...

Chris McAlilly 14:17

Yeah, and then you begin to rewrite the narrative, you know, or you go back in the story. It's like, okay, if I got here, and this is like how things went to get to here, then maybe... You know, then you just kind of circle that all the way back to whatever point, and you start trying to figure out what point in the journey to things go sideways. In that process, I guess when you were in that place, I love that idea that you quit for a day. I love that. That's so great, you know, because I just think there are a lot of people that either they quit for a day and they don't say it out loud, or you know. But I just think that concept is really... It's kind of a nice way... You know if the positive thing is don't give up, the negative thing is saying, "I quit." But "I quit for a day," it almost... Like, it gives you some space, you know. It gives you a little bit of space to say, "What would it be like for me to quit?" You know. "What would it be like for me to set this down?" I remember when I played soccer in college, and I remember the moment when I realized, "I think I'm done with this." You know, and it was like, I had been... The thing was, it was like an eight-year journey. Like, from the time I was 12, I was really seriously playing soccer. But it was just time, you know? And sometimes you just know that it's time. And sometimes you don't know if it's time or not. You gotta figure that out.

Nick Connolly 14:52 [LAUGHTER]

Chris McAlilly 15:38
I could see a lot, I think there are probably a lot of church planters that are out there that get to that point. And they say, "I want to quit for a day," and, "it's too hard," or, "I lose 60% of my people," or whatever. And they actually do quit. What was different for you?

Nick Connolly 15:54

I had... One of the things that I've realized in this journey of writing this book and talking with people, whether they have--no matter where they dwell in their space in this earth. So if they're working outside of ministry, outside of the church, or they're working inside of the church, one of the things that's so interesting to me is anything that we do, that's worthwhile doing, we have some sort of interaction, that seems out of body, where we're like, "This is what I'm supposed to do." So if we as believers are praying to God, and we're like, "God, I just, I need to know what to do with this job. I really want this job." And then God comes through and blesses us with this job. And we're like, "oh, my gosh, this is the miracle job." And so we decide to move forward in victory. But one of the things that I have noticed about people who struggle with discouragement and defeat, specifically when it comes to calling, is we decide to walk away in defeat. And so we were on the third heaven getting into this thing. Like, you know Paul talks about that third heaveb, and we're, like, flying high getting into this thing. And we decided to walk away on days when we're most defeated. And I'm sure we could all agree in this moment that, who doesn't want to quit on the days that they're defeated? Like, everyone. There's 100% return of success on quitting on days where we are struggling. And so I think one of the things that I have learned and encouraged people with is, hey, don't make a defining decision in your life on the day where you feel the most defeated.

Eddie Rester 17:36 Right.

Chris McAlilly 17:36
That's a great piece of advice. Don't react to it. Yeah.

Eddie Rester 17:43
And you talk in the book about befriending resistance and outlasting discouragement and choosing persistence. So we'll probably pull those three apart a little bit.

Nick Connolly 17:56 [LAUGHTER]

Eddie Rester 17:57

Yeah, so help us think about befriending resistance. Because in those moments where it feels like everything is pushing against you, pushing you away, pushing you down, it's real hard to say, "How do I work with this?" So.

Nick Connolly 18:11 Yeah.

Eddie Rester 18:11
Help us understand. What do you mean by that?

Nick Connolly 18:13

That's a great question. It's actually, I didn't make it up. Jesus said in John 16.33. He says, "In this world, you will have trouble." And so I just was like, alright, well, that's resistance. I feel that everyday. So Jesus is like, in this world, like, you gotta get used to resistance. And so one of the things about, you know, I mentioned that I'm living in Charleston, South Carolina. One of the things that happens frequently is we get hurricanes. Like, we were always on a storm watch from summer to late fall. And one of the things that can happen here is you could be surprised by every storm that the Weather Channel announces. And sometimes when people move here, like, we'll always have people who are like... Like, they said tropical storm, and they leave for two weeks. And it's like, well, that one didn't even come close. It didn't even... You know, you're gonna live through a lot crazier storms being here. And so I'm not surprised by hurricanes when I live here. Like, I expect them. And I think sometimes in life, we are surprised by storms. And as a result, we become offended. And usually when we become offended, it's offended towards God. And we're like, "God, how could you? How could you?" And he's like, "Well, I mean, my son said, 'In this world, you will have resistance.'" And so when I say befriend resistance, the first thing I'm saying is we just gotta get used to it. And the second thing that I would say, when it comes to befriending resistance, is that I think a lot of times when we experience resistance, we think that we're heading in the wrong way. But actually, to me, resistance is very confirming that I'm heading in the right direction. Like, when I think about everything worthwhile in my life--my marriage, my fathering, this job that God's given me to pastor this church, my spiritual journey... Like, you know, anytime I feel like I need to reconnect with God, I've got to get up early. I don't want to get up early. That's hard. That's resistance. And so all of the things that are worthwhile in this life, we're going to encounter resistance. And it's actually very affirming to me, when I experienced resistance. It's like, oh, I'm in the right direction. I'm heading in the right way, because God, God wants me to go this way. And the enemy does not want me to go that way.

Eddie Rester 20:28

And I think a lot of times, I think about resistance, just thinking about working out. Anything that you do to build yourself or to build your voice... Amen. Or to build your talent requires you to experience the resistance, but kind of lean into the resistance for that. So what about this outlasting discouragement? What do you mean by that? How do we out duel the discouragement that comes to us? say, "How do I work with this?" So.

Nick Connolly 20:55

Yeah, I think it is the word that we cringe the most with in the midst of the church. And that starts with a s, and it's called the seasons. And we're like, oh, my gosh, like everyone says seasons. And I, when you read scripture, I think God is like, trying to make us pick up some patterns here. And the patterns are, is that there are seasons. And so one of the things that I've seen in my life is that resistance and discouragement are temporary. Those things are temporary. And the enemy wants us to make a defining decision based off of a temporary feeling. And God's like, "Hey, if you can just last a little longer." It's Galatians 6.9, Paul says that if we do not give up, we will reap a harvest. And so I want to encourage people, that whatever they're going through in their life, that if they can press through the hard times, the harvest is on the other side.

Eddie Rester 21:52

So how, you know, I've got friends in the recovery community, and they talk about white knuckling it as something that you can do, but it's not a healthy thing to do. And I think you would say the same thing. So how is kind of outlasting the onslaught, how is that different than just buckling down and trying to get through it?

Nick Connolly 22:14

Yeah, I think one of the... I think the main difference would be is that white knuckling means that you're going to remain the same the whole way through and just wait for the storm to pass. And we as believers are convinced that we're going to be restored and revived and changed through the process. And so when the storm passes over us, we're actually becoming a different person through the process. And so, to me, that's the difference in the white knuckling versus God doing a formative work in our heart. It's like, I'm not here to white knuckle it, I'm here to see the thing that he wants to do in my heart. It's, I think it's Philippians 1.6 that Paul says that he's bringing things to completion into the day of Christ Jesus. And so if Jesus hasn't come back, God's doing some things in my soul and in my heart that I want to see done. And so I think it's less about white knuckling. I think it's more about the hope, right? It's like, hey, there's something that's gonna break on the other side of this.

Chris McAlilly 23:21

For people that find themselves in situations of pain or suffering, you know, I think one of the things that can sometimes be hard is... You know, I think about it for myself. In moments where things have been really difficult, sometimes those scriptures I know all those--you know, the right words, the right Scriptures, the right kind of spiritual handholds in moments of pain and suffering. Sometimes they just don't sound the same, when you get into the deep, dark places of life. I remember my New Testament professor in seminary, his wife was in need of care. He said, one time they were in the hospital, and he read the book of Job to her. And he said it just didn't hit. It's like, it can be biblical wisdom, but it doesn't... I don't know. It doesn't sound... I don't know. It just didn't come off in that particular moment. I wonder what you would say to someone who finds themselves in one of those really hard struggles right now.

Nick Connolly 24:27

One of the things I talk about in the book is talking... I talk about being real to God. Like, that's the thing I love about the Psalms is I just like... One minute, David's, you know, using very, very robust language, and then he ends the Psalm, and he's like, "but you, O Lord." And so I think one of the interesting things that we think about our relationship with God is that we have to have this buttoned up, flowery language with him, when he's actually the only one who can take exactly how we feel. And so, to me, that's part of the process. Getting angry at God is part of the healing. Getting upset in the midst of painful, painful circumstances is part of trying to figure out this process that he's walking us through. And I think, you know, especially being in the South, we all want to pretend that being a believer means that you're buttoned up and you have everything together. And God's peeling that layer back. He's like, "Hy, that's... You're a child. You're not some sort of buttoned-up figure of a southern Christian." Like, "I've got some things that I want to do in your heart." And so the best thing I know about my relationship with the Father is that he's inviting me into authenticity. Like he's... If I don't want to hear the flowery language, then he wants to hear me say that. If I if I'm having a problem with someone encouraging me because they're saying all the right things, it's like, God, he, there's nothing I can do to lose the favor and the pleasure that I have in my father, because Christ Jesus is in me. And so when he sees me, he's not seeing frustrated Nick, he's seeing Christ in me, the hope of glory. And so I just think sometimes we forget that part of the theology, where it's like, hey, he wants all of us. All of us.

Eddie Rester 25:17

And I think sometimes we tend to hide bits and pieces in life, from God, from our spouses, from people around us. You talked about authenticity, and increasingly I've talked about this with other guests as well, the Psalms are just that place in scripture, if you want to look at one place where people just lay it bare. I mean, not in pleasant or subtle ways. You know, how long O, Lord? How long will you forget me? Will you forget me forever? I mean, all of us have felt that kind of frustration at some point.

Chris McAlilly 26:52

Yeah. There's deep honesty. Yeah, there's honesty there. And I guess I would, I guess the thing that I would say, if you're listening, and you have heard certain bits of scripture that may be at a different time of your life, were ones that you took comfort in, and maybe you're not receiving them today, I do think that there is... The Psalms can be a place to go when you have nowhere else to go, you know, within the context of the biblical narrative. And even, there's some... I think about, you guys are Bright City, but there are these moments of deep, deep darkness. I think about Psalm 88, for instance, is like you don't ever get beyond it. Darkness is my only companion kind of thing. It's just, you get to the point where you get to the end of the psalm, and it's still dark, you know?

Nick Connolly 26:52 Yeah.

Chris McAlilly 27:40

The good thing is, that's not the only psalm. That was that's like, Psalm 88 is like the day where you say, "I quit for a day," you know? It's like, that's there, it's dark for a day. But that's just one psalm. There are 150 of them. And it's one book in a book of 66. You know, you've got... There's a lot of territory. But I do think that it's helpful to know that the Bible does contain words for the darkest moments, and for the hardest days. There's language when you don't have any other words to offer to God, there's language literally within the Word of God for you to speak to God, which I just think is so powerful, and has been helpful to me in the past.

Nick Connolly 28:27 That's so good.

Chris McAlilly 28:28

I wonder, you know, I do think that there are resources, and one of them is just kind of the resource of the biblical narrative and the story and the end the Word of God, but what are
some of the other resources that are available to you if you're trying to find your way out of that moment? And then maybe even some of the habits, kind of spiritual habits, that are helpful as well.

Nick Connolly 28:54

Oh, man. Those are good. A few things come to mind. One of the parts of the book, I recall the story of Elijah, and how Elijah sees fire from heaven come down, has the best ministry moment that probably anyone has ever had in the history of time, other than Jesus. And he enters into this deep dive of despair and defeat. And actually, in the book, I write about it. I mean, I think if he lived today, that would be what we would call borderline suicidal. And one of the things that I noticed that God does in that moment, is meet him in the practical. And so one of the things that Elijah does is he sleeps. If you are not getting regular rest, then there's no way you're going to be able to keep going. Another thing that God does in that moment is he gives him food to restore his soul. If you are not watching out for your health, then, your physical health, then you will not be able to persevere and run the race that God has for you in your time. And I just, every time I read that I'm like, God is so practical. Like he's got spiritual restoration for him. But he starts in the physical. And that, you know, it might not be that for everyone, for all of time, but it's just so beautiful. And then the other thing I will say is going back to that quitting for a day is it's God's idea. Everyone should quit for a day, Sabbath. If you do not stop for one day, you will not be able to keep going. It just will not happen. You will burn out. You will flake out. Y ou will run out. It just won't happen.

Eddie Rester 30:40

A couple things about Sabbath. One, I remember that, I can't remember who wrote it, but Sabbath reminds us once a week that the world doesn't spin around us. That were not the center of all creation. That we have to let go for one day. The other thing that, there's been a lot of research done, and Chris and I years ago dug this up for a sermon series when we worked together, is that after about 55 hours of work in any given week, your production level falls to almost nothing. So when you get to hours, 57, 58, 60, 65, you're taking more time to do less, and that our bodies, our minds, our hearts, our souls are created by God in the loving way to say you just can't do all of that, all the time. And one of the things you talked about is choosing persistence. So how do you balance the idea of persistence with the idea of what you've just talked about, which is rest and Sabbath? How do you know, kind of, how to tease that apart? When you need to be persistent and push in? When you need to step back and rest? What would you say to somebody who's struggling with that?

Nick Connolly 30:55 Amen.

Eddie Rester 30:58

One of the things I always think about when I'm thinking about my effort per week is the feeding of the multitudes. And one of the things that I always see Jesus reminding me of in that story is that you bring me what you have. And I'm going to multiply it more than you could ever imagine. And so some weeks, you know, for my wife and I, we have a robust schedule where she's in ministry with our church. She has her own ministry that she runs. She has written 10 books, and she is traveling all over the place to speak. And we have made it work for us.

Nick Connolly 32:37

But when she does that, I know that there are certain things that I have to do in my week differently when she's gone. So if it's carpool, if it's all the things, those things, you know, it's my joy for those things to change. And I think she would say the same thing for me if I was doing something like this. And one of the things that I've always come back to is, like, God, this is what I have this week. Would you multiply it? And so I'm going to be as persistent as I can in the things that you give me to do this week. And I need you to multiply them. And I think, you know, when you look at that early creation story, one of the things that's interesting is, you know, he steps back, and he's like, "Oh, this is very good." I say "step back" figuratively. But he's processing everything. And he's like, man, it was a good week. And one of the things that we tell our people at Bright City is that if you do not work well during the week, you will not Sabbath well, because you'll feel guilty for your Sabbath. You'll feel like you didn't earn it. And we don't earn Sabbath. Sabbath is a gift. And so I think you have to run in such a way--and it's different for all of us. My wife has another gear. I wish that I had that gear. She has another gear, but she knows when she's being faithful. And I think when we're faithful and choosing persistence and running the best that we can, that God meets us in that and he's like, "Hey, I got you." And here's the greatest part is he's like, "Hey, the things that you didn't get to? I got those, too. I'm still working on those. I'm going ahead. I'm going ahead of you in that." Like, "you didn't get to that this week. But you're gonna get to it next week, and I'm already working on it."

Eddie Rester 34:14

Yeah, I'm sitting here thinking about the Notes app in my phone where I put my to-do list. And, you know, it's always there.

Nick Connolly 34:21 Always.

Eddie Rester 34:22
It's always a rolling list. And getting old enough to realize I didn't have to get to the end of it every week was a gift, but it took me a long time to learn that.

Chris McAlilly 34:37

I wonder what are some of the... I mean, it sounds like your wife is one of the people that is an influence in your life, somebody who's had an impact on your journey, but I wonder who were some of those, some of the other people from whom you mentioned, having good leaders in your life and otherwise. I wonder who were some of the other people that you look to as you're kind of trying to navigate your own journey and that you think would be helpful for others?

Nick Connolly 35:03

Man, that's a good question. And I think if I'm being vulnerable and honest, I think one of the things that has happened up into this point in my life is I've had a few sprinkle leaders that had been like manna. And so they've been what I needed for the moment. There was a guy that I referenced in the book. And the day, the weekend I wanted to give up, I texted him and I was like, "Hey, can we hang?" And Mack walked the bridge with me. We have a bridge here that's like our, it's our only elevation we have in Charleston, is walking the bridge.

Eddie Rester 35:46
I thought you were using it metphorically. I was like, "Walking the bridge?"

Nick Connolly 35:48

It was. It was. It was physical and a metaphor. That, it's five miles. And he just said, "Hey, meet me at the bridge." And so we walked the whole bridge and you know, five miles, that's what, 20 minutes of walking per mile. I mean, that was a huge chunk of his day. And then there's another guy locally, his name's Pastor Michael, and Pastor Michael has been my counselor for a few years. And he's a pastor who has become a therapist. He has that spirit of Caleb, where he's seasoned in life and he's looking to charge other hills. And so he's been incredible. But if I'm being honest, I think one of the things that has been an interesting journey for me is I feel like I am building a legacy that I didn't have. And so I'm meeting with younger people. Like my wife, and I talk about this a lot is I'm giving other people what I didn't have, and that's really hard. And I can become very bitter towards God or entitled, or I can just choose to say, you know, what, the thing that I didn't get? It stops with me. And I'm going to turn backwards. And so I don't think that that really answered your question other than like, that is a struggle.

Eddie Rester 36:59
What you just said there about, you know, "I want to give people," I can't exactly remember how you said it. "I want to give people what I didn't have."

Nick Connolly 37:07 Exactly.

Eddie Rester 37:08

And I think sometimes we miss that connection. I mean, I think about my family of origin and some of the things that happened there, just some things I didn't get. But other people were able to give them to me at specific moments of life. And sometimes I think that's a good way to think about it. What did I miss that someone gifted to me, that I then can make sure that others have on their journey? And I'm gonna think on that one for a while. So, thank you for saying it that way.

Chris McAlilly 37:38

I also think, one of the things that I've observed about, and you referenced the Jorge Acevedo episode that recently came out that... And that's something that you can go back and look in the backlog and find that episode. But one of the things about that conversation, specifically, that I found just so helpful was, here's a pastor who was grinding for 27 years, and then decides to stop and to make a transition into retirement. And then there's so much wisdom that can be learned, you know, from the journey from, I guess, in his case, like, what 35 to 60, or, you know, 35 to 62, or whatever. And I just think that so many of our relationships are with folks that are maybe peers, or maybe just a few years, five to 10 years older than us. But I think one of the things that I'm discovering about myself is a real desire to develop rich friendships with people that are much younger than me and much older than me. And I think... And not just based on need, like, I need X, Y, or Z thing from you.

Nick Connolly 37:49 So good.

Chris McAlilly 38:54
But, you know, so, Eddie and I, we come out of the kind of the Wesleyan Methodist tribe or tradition. And so one of the things that's really central to John Wesley and kind of the revival movement in 18th century was what our friend Greg Jones calls holy friendships. And there's a sense that it's not just mentorship, it's this... It's a it's a deeper kind of friendship that's cultivated that...

Nick Connolly 39:19 Yeah.

Chris McAlilly 39:20

Because, I mean, frankly, in those dark moments, for me personally, sometimes I have a very difficult time seeing what the heck's going on. Sometimes the whole story looks like it's just jumbled up and fragmented, and I can't put the pieces together, and I need someone else to come around. I liked that you said, you know, sometimes it requires a therapist. Sometimes it requires, you know, a spouse, and sometimes it requires the cultivation of holy friends, when things are going well, who can be there for you when things are hard, you know. That Christ can use to... You know, through the friendship, it can become a means of grace to do some of this work that you've talked about, that God wanted to make something in me. I think that's one of the things that's a consistent theme of how I hear you kind of describing your own journey and how you would want to reframe hard things for people. It's not just the external circumstances that are maybe creating a situation where you're being pressed in or you're experiencing, what you're seeing is only darkness, but, you know, it's the consistent testimony of scripture and the church, the living saints through time, that in those hard moments there's this work that God is doing in you. And sometimes you need friends to help point out what that work might be.

Nick Connolly 40:39

That's really good. My wife and I, we recorded a podcast yesterday, she's gracious enough to have me on hers as well. And it was on friendship. Because I think she gets a lot of questions from her female audience, which I feel like we can all agree is that women are incredible relational beings. And she had me on there to talk about friendships with men. And I told her, one of the things that is interesting is I just hit 40 recently, and I was praying to God. I'm like, God, what does the next 40 look like? And I was really thinking something missional, something spiritual, all these things. And one of the things that came out of those prayer moments was something that astounded me greatly is that my mom had cancer early on as a single mom. And so because of her journey through that process, it caused me to grow up really quickly. Like, my youngest memories are household chores, and doing things around the house, contributing the bills so that she could be okay. And what happened was, in its best ways, it matured me quicker than it would have normally. But also in some hard ways as I didn't get the chance to be a kid fully. And so I felt like God was saying, you spent your first 40 years being an adult, and now I want you to spend your next 40 learning how to be a kid, which is what we're trying to get back to anyway, right? Being a kid. And one of the things that's so incredible about kids is I can drop my 10 year old off in a park, anywhere in the city, and he's coming
back with five new friends, 10 new play dates, all from people that we have no idea where they've come from on this planet, and he's ready to go and party. And I think being... You know, God instilling that word or, you know, whatever that is, that people want to call that, that feeling that I had, I felt it in relationships. I just was like, man, I've got to learn how to cultivate friendships, again, because I didn't see it. And one of the things that I've noticed is, a lot of my friends who seem to be the most healthy in life, had a father, who had healthy relationships. That was the legacy.

Eddie Rester 43:08
And men are terrible--men out there who are listening.

Nick Connolly 43:12 Amen.

Eddie Rester 43:13

We're terrible at it. Because our friends are our job. And our friends are our kids, and our friends are our spouses. And we don't take time to invite another guy--let's go catch a drink. Let's go get coffee, let's go have dinner, let's go have lunch, and do that consistently enough that you can talk about important things. And we've... That's a cultural thing. Our Surgeon General in the US is talking about the pandemic of loneliness right now in our culture. And so I think that's an important word for us. Nick, I wonder, as we think about the book, what did God teach you, as you wrote this book? As you... Because it's a long process. I don't know if people realize, you don't you sit down in 30 minutes and knock a book out. What did you learn through the process of writing the book?

Nick Connolly 44:05

To not give up just yet. And I had, I mean, it was a three-year process writing this book, that is actually I wanted it to be shorter. So I think typical trade books are like, 60,000 words ish. And I was like, here's what I don't want is I don't want someone going through a hard time being discouraged because they didn't finish another book. I want them to be able to finish this book. And so my publishers graciously agreed to let me make it a shorter book. But one of the things that I learned is that even, because it was worthwhile, because I was heading in the right direction, because this is what God wanted, because this is going to help people in seasons of discouragement and defeat that this was a hard process. It was hard. And what's been even more interesting is that since I have been done and now that I'm having incredible opportunities to be on podcasts like this, it has gotten harder to keep going. Like all I want to do is give up. Like, it was like, okay, I wrote the book. Now I can move on. What's the next thing, Lord? And I just, it doesn't... The feeling of giving up does not leave us. But one of the most beautiful things about that is that neither does God. He doesn't leave us. He's with us.

Chris McAlilly 45:22
I think that's a good a good place to set it down. Nick, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you for taking the time to both write the book and to share about it with us today. We're grateful, man. And, you know, I'm encouraged and have been, you know, just reminded of some of the important dimensions of the story, so that I can keep pressing on, man. Every day, it's like, it's easy to get discouraged any day of the week. So just super grateful for you, man. Thanks a lot.

Eddie Rester 45:57
"Don't Give Up," coming out in February. Thank you for being with us, Nick.

Nick Connolly 46:00 Thank you for having me.

Eddie Rester 46:01
[OUTRO] Thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed the podcast, the best way to help us is to like, subscribe, or leave a review.

Chris McAlilly 46:10

If you would like to support this work financially or if you have an idea for a future guest, you can go to theweightpodcast.com. [END OUTRO]